department. >> reporter: one of of the big questions is why the obama administration originally blamed in incident on an internet video. utah congressman jason chaffetz opened his remarks with what he saw ph libya last week. >> when i was in libya a good part of the day never once did a person ever mention a video. never. and i am fascinated to know and

understand from the president of the united states, from the secretary of state, and from the ambassador to the united nations, how they can justify that this video caused this attack. it was a terrorist attack. >> reporter: chief intelligence correspondent catherine herridge joins us live in washington. we know you've been watching the hearing closely. what do you think. >> reporter: in his opening statement the chairman is saying the state department in that late-day briefing to reporters made his position known drawing a sharp distinction from the white house narrative that was a demonstration that spun out of control. >> they held a broad news conference over the phone in which they made it very clear that it had never been the state department's position, i repeat, never been the state department's position that in fact this assault was part of a row actioa reaction to a video or the like. this is corroborated by numerous witnesses and whistle-blowers. >> reporter: committee members told this morning in opening statements that there was a

preoccupation in washington with reducing the number of american security personnel at the consulate and replacing them with libyan guards, that there was a rush to move towards a reduced presence after a series of attacks, including the failed assassination attempt on the british ambassador. >> the secretary bombing was an improvised explosive device that was placed on the northgate breaching the wall. it was a test by terrorists, and it was successful, and we didn't respond fully and adequately. >> reporter: fox was first to report on september 17th based on an intelligence source on the ground in libya there was no demonstration at the consulate. that reporting severely undercut the storyline that benghazi was a demonstration hijacked by others or one that spun out of control and today lawmakers heard the same. >> contrary to early assertions by the administration let's understand there was no protest, and cameras reveal that, and the

state department, the fbi and others have that video. >> reporter: in the last few minutes we heard from the head of diplomatic security, eric nordstrom, he said at all levels of government there were requests to have fully armed units at that consulate, and a request to extend a special team from the defense department was also denied. >> reporter: thank you so much catherine herridge. we'll listen to more of the testimony in a moment. but we want to remind you about the four americans who lost their lives in service to our country. ambassador chris stevens had devoted his life to a career in international relations. before serving as our ambassador to libya ambassador stevens was 52 years old. shaun smith was a ten year veteran of the state department, married, a father of two. glen doughtry was working for a private company when he was killed. he had spent 9 years as a navy

seal. 42 years old. tyrone woods spent two decades as a seal and began a career as an independent contractor. he is survived by a wife and three sons. the state department is describing how this attack unfolded. let's list even in for a moment. >> my friends and colleagues, and i trust them with my life. >> thank you. i would direct that that chart be taken down. upon further refle reflection though commercially available in this hearing room we are not going to point out details of what may still be in fact -- >> reporter: laura ingram is a syndicated talk show host and fox news contributor. i want to talk about what darrell issa said which is the headline of all this. there were no processes on september 11th outside of the consulate in benghazi. exactly what ambassador susan rice had gone on all the talk shows to talk about, there were

no protests. >> reporter: she didn't just go on one show, it wasn't an offhand comment which would be bad enough, she went on five television shows to share this narrative. since that period ever time we've had this gradual walk backs and only after the journal of the ambassador was uncovered, other news organizations digging into this and now this blockbuster testimony on capitol hill from two security agents who h who were begging for more help. the fact we only had three station security personnel at one time over this very dangerous period in libya, i think to just regular people watching this who aren't experts in this. three, really? that's all we could give them? something is wrong here. >> reporter: i think what you're referring toys colonel andrew woods testimony, he went on, he provided security for ambassador chris stevens. he went running with him. he was an avid runner. colonel wood would go on these daily runs with chris stevens

and he said he was disappointed when he heard that the state department had decided not to extend their work beyond august 5th. he knew that they still needed security in the area, in fact, threats and attacks had only ramped up in the months. why didn't the state department want to extend them? >> reporter: i think we're going to have to find out. today apparently hillary clinton who we haven't seen much in the last new days is meeting with barack obama. it's a big news when he takes a day off the campaign trail. i'll remind everybody watching fox right now the day after september 11th when we lost our ambassador and three other brave souls the president went onto campaign in nevada. he reference epd the attack, went on, kept on the campaign trail and now these questions linger. i think before the election takes place we should know the truth about the economy, what the numbers really mean and we should know the truth about the sensitive issue of benghazi. this is a critical issue. whether it was confidence, or corruption, or politics we don't really know. but we know that they said one thing, and that was verify plea

untrue. >> reporter: interesting that secretary of state hillary clinton is meeting with the president. there seems to be a schism in their narratives. it was hillary clinton who not immediately, but soon after started referring to this as a terrorist attack, well before the white house was willing to. and in stark can tros to what ambassador susan rice was saying. is hillary clinton on a different page? >> it seems like it. perhaps she is in the white house today to get back on the same page as barack obama. when we have the state department now saying, well we never said it was the film, what? i mean we have susan rice on tape saying this was a protest that had gone bad. protest over the film, hillary clinton herself, many apologies for the film, obviously there was the cairo deal as well. the indication was this was a film that had sparked initial outrage then it went bad. >> to remind people let's play am bass sore susan rice on the sunday talk shows. >> the best assessment we have today is that in fact this was

not a preplanned, premeditated attack. what happened initially was it was a spontaneous reaction to what had just transfired in cairo as a consequence of the video. our current assessment is what happened in benghazi was in fact initially a spontaneousee racks to what had just transpired hours before in kaj row, almost a copy-cat of the demonstrations against our facility in cairo, which were prompted, of course, by the video. >> what our assessment is as of the present is in fact what began spontaneously in benghazi as a reaction to what had transpired some hours earlier in cairo. >> she is reiterating the same words over and over. >> that was a talking point she was sent out to deliver. >> by whom? >> i would -- my surmise and it's a surmise is that this was coordinated at the highest levels of the ad administration, in concert with

what is a perpetual campaign. we know the white house and the campaign operation for barack obama it's almost like a seamless deal over there. they are working hand and glove together. if they didn't know all the details, now we know they didn't, why the rush to send her out? say look this is a terrible and tragic situation, we're going to get to the bottom of this and bring this information to the american people asap. the fact that they didn't say that, and they rushed out there, that is -- that is one of the many things and you should also remember in teleconference did yesterday, the prebuttal. they said it was all quiet outside the compound until 8:30pm. well that is not how it was described by the state department when this thing first went down. >> reporter: that's right. we need to get to the bottom of what happened and that's what the house oversight committee is trying to do today. great to see you. as we learn more about the security failings and possible cover ups surrounding the murder of four americans in libya there could be serious implications for america's foreign policy.

kt mcfarland and general jack keane are just ahead on the fallout around the world and some of the political questions being asked about this. we are getting a whole new series of polls showing governor romney gaining ground on the president after last week's debate, including some very big news out of the state of ohio. chris stirewalt is next. >> the president says he's for the middle class, how have they done under his presidency? not so well. i want to help the middle class get good jobs, and better take home pay. i know how to do that. i spent my life working, working in enterprises. i understand how jobs come and why they go. [ male announcer ] there are only so many foods that make kids happy. and even fewer that make moms happy too. with wholesome noodles and bite sized chicken, nothing brings you together like chicken noodle soup from campbell's. it's amazing what soup can do.

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court appearance yesterday. authorities say he was arrested wearing a bulletproof vest and flame retardant pants. in his suitcase they found, knives, body bags, a hatchet, collapsible baton, bayh owe hazard suit. billy clubs, handcuffs, leg irons and more. he's a u.s. citizen who recently started living and working in japan and he's scheduled to appear in court again on friday. governor mitt romney in the battleground state of ohio today where he is alongside the governor of new jersey, chris christie. he, again, is gaining significant ground in the week since the presidential debate there. now with less than four weeks to go the rea "real clear politics" average of ohio shows that romney and the president are in a virtual tie, as you can see there. let's take a look at this chart. a 5.5 gap closing to .8 over the course of just days. the governor campaigning as we

said today in ohio, where he earlier stopped by a manufacturing plant. let's listen. >> his plans do not create jobs for the american people or rising incomes. i actually have a plan that will create 12 million new jobs and get rising incomes again. alisyn: chris stirewalt is fox news digital politics editor and the host of "power play" on foxnews.com. hi, chris. what is going on in ohio, the all-important state of ohio, they are neck-and-neck. >> what do we know? we know you can't get elected president without ohio. it's a must-win for mitt romney. we know that the president tilted his entire strategy for the election to blocking mitt romney in ohio. tense of milliontens of millions of dollars of the roughist, toughist personal attack adds that we've ever seen from an incumbent president.

they were folk is used on ohio and blue-collar workers to say mitt romney is a bad guy and you ought not vote for him. what we saw previously is that ohio wasn't acting like the rest of the swing states. that romney would go up or down in the other swing states but the gap remained in must-win ohio, largely because the president had run such a tough, negative campaign and focused so much on romney in ohio. and then poof, that debate took place, and now ohio, the gap is closed in ohio and more importantly for mitt romney it's starting to track with the rest of the country. as you see romney improving in michigan, pennsylvania, wisconsin, florida, virginia, north carolina, colorado, nevada, all the swing states no longer is ohio lagging behind the rest of them, but the surge is taking place there, this is a break-flew moment for mitt romney and it has to be disconcerting for the obama campaign that was counting on ohio to be the bulwark that would block the republican challenger. alisyn: the fact that the governor is now within this whisker of the president in ohio

is this all a by-product of the president's lack luster debate or are there other forces at play here? >> you have to remember that mitt romney beat him, mitt romney not only was advantaged by the fact that the president was a little list less, he also spoke clearly, spoke in a way that republicans had been begging him to do for a longtime and he stood and delivered in that debate. what he did was become applausable president. people creased to think of him as some guy who used to fight with rick santorum and newt gingrich and started to think that maybe he's a guy that could become president of the united states. he passed the plausibility bar. remember, this was the most watched debate in at least 20 years. the fact is that given the larger audience and given the swing voters they took a look at mitt romney, liked what they saw and now the race is very much afoot. alisyn: we are less than 30 days away. is there anyway to predict historically i guess if we look back what could happen in these

30 days when they are neck-and-neck, when the incumbent president is neck-and-neck like this with a challenger, what happens? >> oh, it's all about momentum, ali, the whole thing is this. mitt romney's only concern is can he sustain. he's on the upward pafpltd path. i would speculate by the end of this week mitt romney will probably be in the hrao*ez in ohio as faohio. the president is very busy dealing with these problems that he's in as it relates to libyan foreign policy, big bird and whatever else they've tried isn't going to work. the obama race -- obama campaign needs to reset, figure out their new attack line on romney and start trying to blow him up against. i can't predict who is going to win. i can predict this. you'll see a lot more attack ads, if you live in ohio you'll see a lot more attack ads for this next 27 days. alisyn: how significant a factor do you think this week's vice presidental debate will be? >> well, it could be pretty big, because here is the deal. the president wanted to -- the

president was sh was shagrinned that he looked weak and mitt romney got the upper hand. joe biden has a little trouble with the volume mad ooh lacing and sometimes gets a little carried away. the danger for them is if he's swinging too hard against paul ryan and doesn't come across as somebody who looks phraus plea presidential himself that could be a troubled moment for the campaign skwraot other battleground states in addition to ohio, virginia, florida, you're seeing the same trend? >> oh, my gosh. look, what is happening right now is that the swing states -- this is becoming a national election. instead of dealing with these localized issues people are tuned in and very much aware of the stakes of this election, they are considering their choices carefully. right now it's helping romney. maybe it helps obama later. we've gone from a localized election to a very national election. alisyn: alisyn: edge of your seat time. thank you so much. keep it right here the vice presidental debate this thursday night. the one and only chance for the

running mates to go to toe-to-toe. we'll have live coverage and analysis before and after. "america live" comes live from kentucky on thursday on friday. megyn kelly and bret baier will bring you the debate itself and analysis afterwards beginning at 8:55pm eastern time. set your alarms. new developments in the nation-wide meningitis outbreak. thousands may be affected, and some may not even know it yet. the race to find thousands of people who could be at risk. plus, after president obama signed the healthcare overhaul into law it's own supporters admitted they did not fully know what was in it. now businesses are finding out and one u.s. company with more than 150,000 employees is considering cutting workers' hours just to cope. >> we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it away from the fog of the controversy.

>> one agent secured ambassador stevens and shaun smith. the information management officer in a safe-haven. the attackers used diesel fuel to set the main building ablaze. thick smoke rapidly filled the entire structure. the agent began leading the ambassador and shaun smith toward the emergency escape window. nearing unconsciousness himself the agent opened the emergency escape grill window and crawled out. he then realized they had become separated in the smoke. alisyn: what a nightmarish scenario. she is the state department representative testifying to the house oversight committee a short while ago about how the attack on our consulate in benghazi unfolded now a month ago tomorrow.

just yesterday governor romney revealed a surprising personal connection to the consulate attack in libya. the presidential candidate told a crowd in iowa that he knew one of the navy seals who was killed. the governor met glen doherty during a chance encounter a few years back. he and his wife ann showed up at the wrong house party for a christmas party, and doherty was attending. he recalls the seal's passion for the mission in the middle east. >> he was a former navy seal, he was living in san diego, and learned about him, he talked about his life. he told me that he keeps going back to the middle east, he cares very deeply about the people. you can imagine how i felt when i found out this that he was one of the two form former navy seals killed in benghazi on september 11th and it touched me obviously as i recognized this young man that i thought was so impressive had lost his life in the service of his fellow men and women.

according to the reports on cnn international that i read, he was actually in a different building, in an annex, a safe place somewhere else across town when he and his colleagues there heard that the consulate was under attack, and they went there. they didn't h u.n. ker down were in safety, they rushed there to go help. this is the american way. we go where there is trouble. phraus. >> we go where we are needed. [applause] alisyn: we are watching that hearing. more of the testimony in a moment with kt mcfarland and general jack keane. major developments to tell you about in the nationwide meningitis outbreak, the death toll rising to 12 across ten different states. jonathan serrie is live in atlanta, give us an update. >> the death toll rising because of a new case confirmation. officials in florida have confirmed that a 70-year-old man who died back in july was indeed

a victim of this fungal men me meningitis outbreak. we should point out that this particular form of meningitis is not transmissible from person-to-person. it involved people who received steroid injections to their lower back. there are now 120 cases in ten states. the outbreak was initially traced to a fungus that apparently can tomorrow natured three lots of injectable pain medication compounded by a specialty pharmacy in massachusetts. tennessee health officials say they've confirmed a second type of funk gas associated with meningitis cases in that state, again connected to this same medication. some members of congress are expressing concern thatical opeh as the new england compounding center, which formulated the steroids suspected in this outbreak faceless regulatory oversight than the actual drug manufacturers. congressman edward markey of massachusetts sent a letter to the fda saying compounding

pharmacies fall into a regulatory black hole. the house committee on energy and commerce has sent out letters to goat the cdc and the fda requesting briefings by the end of this week on this outbreak as this congressional committee investigates it and its root causes. back to you. alisyn: jonathan serrie thanks so much for that. we are going to check back in with the hearings in benghazi. let's listen in and see what is happening. >> i am not prepared to render a formal opinion on whether or not it was premeditated, but i thought it involved a degree of complexity that was significant. >> according to people who were there you called it a terrorist attack. >> oh, that was in a separate statement, yes, sir. >> that's all i wanted to know. >> yes, sir, absolutely. >> okay. because today, ace listeas i listen to people, and you, miss lamb, have said -- you have described these attackers in a number of ways, but you

don't mention terrorist at all. why is that? i mean the compound had been attacked once before and breached, and these people had all these weapons, projectiles, grenades, all kinds of weapons, why would you call this anything but a terrorist attack? and why do you call them attackers? >> sir, i have just been presented the facts as they've come across. i am not making any judgments on my own, and i am leaving that -- >> okay. let me ask you a couple of other questions. there were 16 troops that were there at that compound, and they requested them to be kept there, and they sent a suggestion to you that they be kept there, and then you responded saying that if that was presented to you you would not accept that. was that your sole decision?

>> sir, they were not in benghazi, they were in tripoli. i just want to make sure that we're -- >> i understand, go ahead. >> and when the cable came in where arso nordstrom laid out all of his stacking requirements and needs i asked our december be officer to go back and sit down with him or through emails and telephone conversations to workout all the details and line up exactly how many security personnel, armed security personnel did he need. >> okay. well you did not agree with that assessment that they needed those there. >> no, sir. we had been training -- >> no, no i just want to know, did you or did you not say that if that was presented to you you would not accept it? accept it? >> he was -- >> did you or did you not say ... >> yes, sir, personally would i

not support it. he could request it. >> why is that? you knew about all these other attacks that had taken place. there had been 12-14. >> we had been training local libyans and arming them for almost a year. >> local libyan militia was there. many of them supposedly were told by friend and relatives that there was going to be an imminent attack on that compound and so many of them left. they didn't want to be involved in the attack. so i don't understand why you would say that out of hand that you don't think those 16 troops should be there. >> sir, with due respect they twher tripoli, not benghazi. it would not have made any difference in benghazi. >> in nordstrom, do you care to comment on this? >> as ms. lamb indicated january-february i had a number of conversations with ms. lamb,

with the region sal director and the officer for libya itself and a lot of those discussions were specific to determining what exactly our personnel needs were. look at me tricks, what the duties would be that these personnel would be doing, be it the d.o.d. sourced or department of state sourced. the number that we continued to come up with -- and it is generally the same number that was requested in march in my first request, was approximately 12 armed security with an additional 6 persons that would be focused on training that local guard unit. >> would the gentleman yield? >> i would be happy to yield. >> isn't it true we had this in testimony from the r.s.o. from

benghazi they had 30% turnover per month in these people you were training. you were not getting if you will, good career people to come in. but had a very high turnover both in the unarmed and to a lesser extent in the armed portion of the training? >> we had in terms of a point of clarification, we did have -- the guard force was somewhat confusing. in tripoli the guards that we employed were directly hired by the embassy. >> i'm only speaking of benghazi. >> those were sub contracted. the decision to go with the contractor blue mountain was largely based on our concern of how long we would be in benghazi. we were concerned if we brought upon board full-time employees we would have to find a position for them if that post went away. it's my understanding there was a high turnover with those people. in terms of the armed security that were there, the 17 february

it was a core group that stayed there largely for the duration. >> colonel wood, if you would like to finish. alisyn: we have been listening to the committee hearing trying to get answers on what went oh terribly wrong at our consulate in benghazi that left four americans dead. k.t. macfarland. it's great to have your expertise. let's just talk about what we just heard. we are getting so much information from these whistleblowers basically, eric nordstrom who was there tef nieg and colonel andrew wood about how they requested for security. they could see the security situation deteriorating, they could see more targeted attacks on westerners, yet for some reason it was declined by the state department. how do you interpret that? >> there was security -- requests for security were

denied. as a result of that americans died. now somebody is lying. if what the deputy assistant secretary miss lamb was talking about, they got the request and didn't hon year the, to me that's criminal negligence. i was in the white house during watergate when decisions like this were made. they are not made by mid-level function airies. the ambassador reports directly to the secretary of state. if he requested and his people requested more security. if he said i'm on a target list for al qaeda. that decision to ignore that request is not made at a low level. that's made at a high level at the state department or the white house. alisyn: why would the state department or the white house deny the request for more security there? >> it defies description why they would do this. we had problems like this in somalia when the department of

defense denied resources to our troops that desperately needed it. it's confusing to come to grips with something as irresponsible as this. the harsh reality and the major scandal is the people in benghazi were essentially defenseless. and we had unness loss of life. -- we had unnecessary loss of life. how sad is that. i don't think the request nordstrom is making is adequate and on top of that the state department turns it down. there were 9 people protecting a compound 300 yards by 900 and a couple of them would not have been there if the ambassador was not there. we can't defend a facility of that size with nine people. we defend our embassy in kabul and baghdad and we have hundreds of people involved in that because we do not rely on local security forces. alisyn: i want to play for you

something eric nordstrom just said on the stand about that attack. we were just looking at pictures. it sounds like a nightmare i shall scenario where terrorists streamed into the consulate and began setting buildings on fire while our ambassador was trapped inside. >> i did not see an attack an attempt previously in libya nor in my time with the diplomatic security service. i'm concerned this attack signals a new security reality. just as the 1983 beruit marine barracks bombings did for the month reasons. the 1998 east africa bombings and 9/11 did for our entire country. however, we must remember that it is critical that we balance our risk mitigation efforts with the needs our diplomats to do their jobs. the answering not be to operate from a bunker. alisyn: you heard him. he thinks this represents a new

reality. >> i was in the pentagon the day of the beruit bombing and he's absolutely right. from that point forward we changed the positioning of our troops and to our personnel deployed overseas. but something no one has asked yet, i understand they didn't provide adequate security. but once that attack was going down they night was happening. they did not know how long it would last. what the result would be what americans be killed or captured? would they be held hostage? why did nobody try to send other security guards, security in benghazi. there was security in tripoli. we have forces in sicily. why did no one try to as that attack was going down find out what was going on and see if they could be useful to protect americans? that's a whole second line of unanswered questions. alisyn: here is another question that's come out from all of the testimony that's come out as well as this conference call that was basically the bombshell between state department

official and journalists in which they admitted they still don't know how sam bass doer stevens got to the hospital from the consulate. it was only because doctors at the hospital found his cell phone and began calling his call list could they figure out who he was and start connecting the dots. why don't we know more information? >> the serious problem we had -- this personal security detail got separated from him which is a major issue. the people on the ground trying to protect him given a split second decision they were making. but the facts of the matter is we lost control rather quickly at that site. we did not have adequate people and we lost control of the ambassador. alisyn: who is responsible for answering all these questions? >> bad stuff happened. so what does the administration do? they throwing a lot of dust up

in the air so you are not sure what happened and who to blame. is is the movie, the security, the state department diplomats. we don't know the answers to that. i have got to guess it was a political decision and not only a political decision not to give them the kind of security they wanted. but it was probably a political decision not to rescue them. and is it a political decision to put a lot of blue smoke and mirrors in front of everybody so they won't know what happened until after the election? alisyn: thank you for k.t. mcfarland and general jack keane. we'll continue to listen to these hearings throughout the day and hope we can get more answers. we'll bring you more libya hearings in just a moment. plus we have a horrible story out of pakistan to tell you about. a 14-year-old girl shot for defying taliban orders and going to school and being a champion of girls' education. we'll ask one champion of free

speech why she thinks this issue is not getting the attention it deserves. the vice presidential debate is not until tomorrow but he's already being hit with the label "liar" by some top democrats. i'm only in my 60's... i've got a nice long life ahead. big plans. so when i found out medicare doesn't pay all my medical expenses, i looked at my options. then i got a medicare supplement insurance plan.

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alisyn: we are keeping an eye on the hearing by the house on the benghazi killings. when there is more information we'll bring it to you. >> as we saw from this convention speech, it's an open question as to whether congressman ryan will lay out anything that with stands the scrutiny of the fact checkers. governor romney's first debate confirmed this is a ticket that's willing to say anything to get elected.

even if it means being completely dishonest about their own positions, never mind the president's. alisyn: almost 24 hours before the first vice presidential debate and top democrats are raising questions about whether the vice presidential nominee paul ryan may lie on stage. several suggesting his performance will be laced with falsehoods and untruths. this comes a week after governor romney faced a similar attack when some of the president's supporters, campaign managers and surrogates called romney a liar for how he laid out his positions in first presidential debate. >> are you saying governor romney lied or was dishonest? >> i think he was dishonest, absolutely. >> plenty of people point out what a liar mitt romney was last night. if he was speaking last night he was lying. >> i think that we expected an aggressive debater to show up last night on stage with barack obama.

we didn't expect an aggressively dishonest debater to show up and that what's we got in mitt romney. >> many people are situation they saw was a governor romney they had known all along and what's the problem in the past is they haven't seen that person and he finally emerged during the debates. >> you mean he lied through his teeth in the republican primaries when he said he would cut taxes for wealthy people? he many the etch-a-sketch guy who transformed himself and we sales have to wonder which mitt is going some show up. if you just lay out lie after lie after lie about your own plan as well as what the president has been talking about, of course you can look good. alisyn: let's go to two truth tellers. monica crowley and kirsten powers. both are fox news contributors. wow! monica, let me start with you. this is what the best -- supposedly best political minds

in washington have come up with to explain the president's underwhelming performance, the other guy is a liar. >> this is what we have come down to on the obama campaign side. i find it richly ironic and amusing that president obama and his team who have lied to the american people about their willingness to cut the deficit, their reality of obama-care, fast and furious, and now the truth about the actual threat and the nature of the terrorist attack in been gatsy that killed four americans. they have been repeatedly lie together american people for years. i find it ironic now they are leveling that attack against governor romney and paul ryan. this is classic projections. accusing your oh poanltd of what you yourself have guilty of. it's straight out of the saul alinsky playbook. the american people are focused on the facts. what romney and ryan have in

their arsenal are the facts. that's why president obama could not come back again governor romney in the debate because he has the facts about the economy. alisyn: kirsten, is that how you interpret it? >> it's interesting to juxtapose this conversation against what's going on in this hearing with what happened in libya where there were some untruths told if you want to be subtle about it. when you have the administration being dishonest about the way they handled a very, very serious issue facing our country, to turn around and start accusing people of lying because of things that i think are probably differences of opinion, it's pretty startling. i think it's desperate. this liar liar strategy is very desperate and i don't know why they want to keep talking about the debate frankly considering obama really just was pretty much decimated byrum any in that

debate. why they continue to bring it up befuddles me. alisyn: the president as you both recall when he was campaigning in 2008, he promised to be a post partisan president. he was going to rise above politics. i know we are laughing now. but that was part of the promise. in fact when he was president in 2009 you both recall when congressman joe wilson yelled out, "you lie" when the president was talking about healthcare' let me play for what you the president's response was then. >> we have to get to the point where we can have a conversation about big important issues that matter to the american people without vitriol, without name calling, without the assumption of the worst in other people's motives. alisyn: what happened to that strategy? >> the obama economy is in free-fall and he has an obama

foreign policy in total collapse. they are out of political and rhetorical ammo and they are out of ideas. now they have been reduced to calling the other side liars. the fact is you touched on something important which is this is so devastating to the obama brands because in 2008 he did position himself as somebody who was going to change the conversation, the tone, the way things were done in washington. and he obviously hasn't done that. alisyn: why didn't he tell his surrogates, i'm not going to let you use that language on my watch. >> it's not like they woke up one day and said independently to start calling romney a liar. it's a strategy. i don't think it's something the president doesn't want them doing. i think it's a strategy. i don't agree the economy is in a free-fall, i think it's turning around. but the reason they are doing this is because he did so badly in the debate. we can see so clearly how it's

being reflected in the polls. they are desperate. alisyn: it flies in the face of what he said how he wanted to conduct himself. what changed? >> i know -- i guess i'm the only person who is not shocked when politicians go against the promises that they have made. i never really bought into that in the first place. but to me it's just more of a bad strategy and -- there are a few lines in politic that usually aren't crossed and unof them is people usually don't call other people liars. believe it or not. this is not -- the clips that you played of so many people over and over accuse something one of lying is kind of unprecedented. al require is shocking to hear the people might be jaded in washington or talking about politics but always a pleasure

to talk to you both. fox news alert on the house oversight committee investigation into the attack on our consulate in benghazi that killed four americans. moments ago the state department was being grilled on why the administration suggested that internet video was to blame for this attack when the intelligence community knew within 24 hours that terror was to blame. >> based on those verbal threats we intervened. absent constitutional authority. we bombed libya. we destroyed their army, obliterated their police stations. looking any civil security, weapons are everywhere, thousands of shoulder to air missiles are in the loop. our military intervention led to greater instability in libya. many of us democrats and republicans alike made that argument to try to stop the war it am not surprising given the inflated threat and the expectations inherent in our

nation building in libya that the state department was not able to adequately able to protect our diplomats from this predictable threat it many not surprising and it, not acceptable. it's easy to blame some wins. like a civil servant at the state department. we know game. decades of american foreign policy directly contributed to regional instability and the rise of armed militias around the world. it's even harder to look at congress's role in the ar inability to stop the wars. and the drone attacks that are still killing innocent civilians and strengthening radical element. we want to stop the attacks on our embassies. let's stop trying to overthrow governments. let's look at the real situation. intervention does not make us safer. they do not protect our nation.

they are themselves a threat to america. mr. kennedy, i would like to ask you, is al qaeda more or less established in libya since our involvement? >> i will have to take that question for the record. i'm not an intelligence expert. >> you don't have the intelligence you are saying? i'll go on to the next question. >> i think it other two may have an opinion. >> i wanted to ask ambassador kennedy. next question, ambassador kennedy. how many shoulder to air missiles are capable of shooting -- that are capable of shooting down civilian passenger airlines are still missing in libya? this happened since or intervention. can you answer that question? >> i'll be glad to provide it for the record. >> you are saying you don't

know. >> i do not know, sir it am not within my normal purview of operations at the state department. >> does anyone know how many shoulder to air missiles that can shoot down civilian airliners are in libya. >> the rough approximate nation was between 10,000 and 20,000. >> the gentleman's time is expired. did you want them to answer a question about al qaeda growth? >> is al qaeda more or less established in libya since our involvement. >> yes, their presence grows every day. they are certainly more established than we are. >> thank you. with that we recognize the chairman of the subcommittee and mr. chaffetz. >> in nordstrom, we spoke before and it's clear on the record. you were asking for more personnel and that was either

rejected or denied or just simply ignored, correct? >> we were asking just to keep what we had. >> when you weren't able to just even keep what you had, what happened to your pay and the other security officers on the ground? >> i'm sorry? >> as i recall what you told me when that was denied you were given a pay increase, the increase to your pay. >> okay. what i think you are referring to is the increase in danger pay for a post. as part of normal procedures we are asked for input at post. i as part of that process would provide information on security. >> you were asking for more assets, more resources, more personnel. that was denied, but the state department went back and reclassified it as more dangerous, the danger pay therefore increased. they didn't tell you we didn't have resource that congress just cut your budget.

they gave an increase because the danger was rising. >> that correct. we received a danger pay increase. >> did the buildings in benghazi meet the so-called standard. after the bombings in beruit we formalized the minimum standards. did they meet those minimum standards? >> neither the buildings in benghazi nor tripoli immediate those standard nor was in a plan for the next phase of construction which was called the interim embassy would they meet the standards either. that interim embassy was scheduled to be on the ground for approximately 10 years. that was a major cause of concern and that was the main physical security issue that we continued to raise. >> i would point to an august 20 cable that u.n. officials believed the security -- the supreme security council is fading away, unquote. unwilling to take on anyone with powerful patrons or from

powerful tribe. this cable says incidents anyone this security vacuum as they refer to it in benghazi. i would point to september 4. in their memo they highlighted a september 1 maximum alert. a maximum alert. september 1. this was the information that was coming. and what's infuriating is we have hundreds of terrorist times of activities. our consulate is bombed twice. the british ambassador has an assassination attempt and you are arguing whether the number was 5 or 2 or 5 or 3 and the security experts who have been to libya didn't get the resources they asked for. colonel wood. did participate in requests for additional personnel in libya and what was the consequence of those requests? >> yes, i did. i assisted eric nordstrom in

preparation of the request for support in as much as they dealt with s.s.t. support. i review some of those document and assisted in the preparation of those. i would like to add also that there was frustration from the beginning. the initial -- or perhaps was the second request for extension that occurred in april 5, ambassador cretz encountered difficulty in understanding what was going on. he was getting conflicting signals from d.o.d. and d.o.s. i got him together with general ham. they worked out an understanding. general ham made it very clear to ambassador cretz he could have the s.s.t. as long as he needed them. this was a great inner agency cooperation and that was made clear to him. it was also made clear to john

pol lashak. he also had a vtc with ambassador stevens and reiterated that same point. that the s.s.t. was his as long as he needed them. all he had to do was request them and general ham was perfectly willing to provide that support. >> mr. noard tropical did you ever specifically ask charlene lamb, did she direct you not to ask for additional d.o.d., s.s.t. extension? >> i recall two specific phone calls. one in the february time frame and one in the july time frame. i had the opportunity to refresh my recollection on one of those phone calls by talking to two agents who were present in the living room of the ambassador's precedence which we lewissed -- rest -- which we used as our office. alisyn: this is the house

oversight committee investigating what went on at consulate in benghazi. they are talking about levels of security and whether when the top agents on the ground wanted more security and were those requests fulfilled and if not, why. >> we felt strongly about the need for that and we requested it any way. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> we now go to the gentleman from massachusetts. we appreciate this patience. for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. alisyn: this is a fox news alert on new reaction to the fallout over the murders of four americans in libya on september 11. a tragedy that raised questions about who was in the obama administration knew the truth about the actual circumstances behind that attack and when. it's a brand-new hour of "america live." i'm alisyn camerota in for megyn kelly. the white house is holding a briefing with reporters for the

this time in two weeks. it's expected to come -- jay carney going to the podium. as you have been watching, house lawmakers are holding their own hearing about what went wrong. let, listen in to jay carney. >> i have great faith the washington nationals will recover. and hopefully win. alisyn: we'll listen when things are important that he's talking about. but one witness at the house committee is already testifying the security at the u.s. consulate in benghazi was woefully inadequate. this follows a powerful denial from the state department earlier. officials say they never concluded that the deadly attack was quota spontaneous reaction to that anti-islam film. you may remember that was a claim echoed by some within the administration several days after intelligence suggested that that was not the case. chief intelligence correspondent catherine herridge is here. tell us the most interesting

things you have heard. >> we have had testimony that the consulate in been gatsy as well as at main embassy in tripoli did not meet what are called the inman standards. when you have a posting in an area with a high likelihood of a terrorist attack or civil unrest there is a classification in the state department. from that very specific physical security standards are set and what we heard at the hearing today which is something we previously reported here on fox september 28 is that the consulate did not meet those physical security standards and they are important because it's supposed to give the ambassador and his team a golden hour they can with stand an attack for an hour and in that time period they can burn the classified information and call in for an emergency evacuation. based on our reporting from what i understand the consulate in

benghazi was only able to withstand an attack by four assailants for 15 minutes. that's why we saw the document left behind and our ambassador was killed. alisyn: thank you so much. let's go to jay carney who is giving the press briefing at the white house. >> the information she had at that point from the intelligence community was the same as i had at that point. as time went on additional information became available. clearly we know more today than we did on the sunday after the attack. but as the process moves forward and more information becomes available we'll continue consulting with you. the point we have made all along, initial assessments in the immediate aftermath of the attack in benghazi were made and it was a government-wide assessment that was the foundation of what ambassador rice said, what i said and what

others said. it was what we knew based on the limited facts we had available to us at that time. ambassador rice clear said sunday these were preliminary conclusions based on the fact.and the intelligence we had available at the time. they were conclusions of the intelligence community for the entire government. i made clear repeatedly when i have been here on the road talking about this that no one is more interested in finding out what happened in benghazi than the president of the united states. that is why he directed his secretary of state the day after the attack to take the actions she did to set up the accountability review board to assess the security posture in benghazi and elsewhere. it's why the fbi is investigating the attack itself to find out who is responsible. it's why the president is so focused on assuring that the perpetrators of the attack that killed four americans are brought to justice. it's why the president has made clear and directed that action

is taken to insure the security of our deputimatic personnel and deputimatic facility. again, from the beginning we provided information based on the facts that we knew as they became available and based on assessments about it intelligence community, not opinions. assessments by the i.c., the intelligence community. we have been clear all along this was an ongoing investigation, as more facts became available we would make you aware of them as appropriate and we have done that. i think that the testimony of pat kennedy today reflects just that. >> do you think there was inadequate security at the consulate? >> there is no question when four americans are killed at a diplomatic facility something went wrong. that's why we need to assess through the accountability review board the security posture there, the security posture of other fat silt around

the world -- other facilities around the world, especially libya in this post-revolution stage. and the period of transition in that country. and that's absolutely a focus of the president's concern right now. that we make sure that our diplomatic personnel who go abroad just like our military personnel, sometimes americans aren't as aware of it. a lot of diplomats go to very dangerous places and take enormous risks because they are serving their country and serving the interests of the american people abroad. because it's in our interest that america be represented in a country like libya, a country that the united states played a role in liberating from a tyrant. working to protect the american

people. by is very focused on the steps that need to be taken to bring back enhanced security where appropriate for dip that i can personnel around the world. alisyn: very interesting to hear the press secretary's words in juxtaposition to the committee testimony. he's trying to answer questions about how the story from the administration changed so dramatically the last month. here is a sample how the statement unfold after the attack. let's take a listen to this. >> was this a failure by the obama administration? did the administration mess up in any way? >> what we have seen is unrest around the region in response to a video that muslims find offensive. >> the best information and best assessment we have today is that in fact this was not a preplanned premeditated attack.

>> ambassador rice in her comments on every network over the weekend was very clear and precise about what our initial he saysment of what happened is. >> i'm saying based on the information we initially had available and have available, we do not have any indication at this point of premeditation or preplanned attacks. >> on that particular question i would say question they were killed in the course of a terrorist attack on our embassy. >> what happened in benghazi was a terrorist attack. >> there is no doubt the kind of weapons that were used, the ongoing assault, that it wasn't just a mob action. now -- we don't have all the information yet so we are still gathering it. alisyn: quite a narrative there. ralph peters will join us at the bottom of the hour and he will respond to what he just heard from the white house. the 14-year-old girl in pakistan

shot in the head on her way to school. targeted by taliban gunmen because she was outspoken about educating girls. a free speech fighter joins to us explain why she considers the real war on women to be unfolding overseas and why she thinks this issue is not getting attention it deserves here. new concerns 10s of thousands of american workers can find themselves without full-time work in the president is reelected now that a major company is considering dropping their employs from full time to part time status. a house hearing underway on the murder of four americans in libya. who made the decision to cut security at the consulate in benghazi and was in a conspiracy to cover up what happened. lieutenant colonel ralph peters will join us with the latest on that hearing ahead. >> when i was in libya a good part of the day day, never once

did a person mention a video. never. and i am fascinated to know and understand from the president of the united states. from the secretary of state and the ambassador to the united nations, how they can justify that this video caused this attack. it was a terrorist attack. oh no, not a migraine now. try this... bayer? this isn't just a headache. trust me, this is new bayer migraine. [ male announcer ] it's the power of aspirin plus more in a triple action formula to relieve your tough migraines. new bayer migraine formula. mom? who's mom? i'm the giants mascot. eat up! new jammin jerk chicken soup has tasty pieces of chicken with rice and beans. you know the giants don't have a mascot right mom? [ male announcer ] campbell's chunky soup. it fills you up right.

alisyn: we are continuing to watch this developing story on capitol hill. this is where the house oversheet committee is holding a hearing rarlgd the investigation into the attack on our consulate in benghazi that killed four americans. we'll continue to monitor this hearing and bring you any important developments. a fox news alert to the supreme court and a case that could turn four decades of affirmative action on its head. the judges heard arguments in a lawsuit involving a college student who claims she did not get into the university of texas because she is white.

shannon bream joins us live now. >> reporter: it was a hot bench today. there was a lot of tough questioning across the board and it started because a teenager decided to take on a fight that brought her here to the u.s. supreme court. abigale fisher is suing the university of texas at austin saying its use of race in its admissions criteria caused her a white female a spot in the freshman class. one person could change the face of higher education across the country. >> this young lady has the courage and perseverance to stand up for equality and what was right and stand up for the guarantees fundamentals to all of us that we are entitled to justice under the law. >> reporter: chief justice john roberts and alito and

scalia hammered the attorney. where do we draw the line? still the school president believes it has the winning argument today. >> we believe the educational benefits of diversity are so important they are worth fighting for all the way to the united states supreme court. our lawyers this morning effectively made the case to the justices that diversity, ethnic and otherwise benefit all of the students on our campus. >> reporter: the man who had everyone'size on him is justice kennedy. he said in the past he understands the use of race in trying to right past wrongs and make sure there is diversity in our colleges and workplaces but he expressed concerns about how to do that without discriminating against others in the process. we'll have to wait and see.

a few months until we know what he decides. today in the courtroom he expressed a lot of scepticism the university at texas in austin is using. alisyn: thanks for that front row on what went on today. so many experts have predicted this conservative court could end up killing affirmative action. judge andrew napolitano is here. >> the significance of this case is it will either uphold a decision of the u.s. supreme court in 2003 which permits state-owned schools to take race into account when they formulate their admissions policies, or lit change that law. if it uphold it this will happen all over the country and people will lose opportunities to gain admission to schooled owned by the state based on race. 100 years of jurisprudence which says we fought the civil war and enacted the amendments to keep

race out of the government's menu of decision-making pro versus. all of that history will be nullified except with admission to stayed-owned schools. i don't think the court would have decided to hear this case it wasn't going to change the law. usually it waits a long time before it will reverse itself. so this will be i think a reversal from 8 years ago and the majority of this court will say you can't use race or gender. you can't not let her in because she is a woman. you can't usage or race. these are characteristics of birth and they have no place in our society for the state. not a private school, but the state to decide who can take advantage of assets the state owns. alisyn: do you think chief justice roberts or the justices as a whole were looking for an opportunity to review their policy on this? >> there is a lot of scuttlebutt

in washington that chief justice roberts is looking to redeem himself with traditionalists after he switched his vote we believe and voted to uphold ball care black the spring. but in fairness to the chief justice the people court agreed to take this case long before it ruled on the affordable healthcare act back in the spring. but i believe there is a majority on the court to say race is out of the question. one way or the other whether it's benign or horrific. the government cannot use race to make a decision. justice is o'connor has been replaced by justice alito. justice kennedy was in the minority in the 2003 case. so i think the votes are there to say the state schools get out of this business of trying to formulate your classes based on race. alisyn: we would have to be color blinds in terms of

admissions. judge andrew napolitano, great to see you. this horrible story. a 14-year-old girl in pakistan tries to stand up to the taliban and she gets shot down for the crime of going to school. a free speech fighter joins to us explain why she considers the real war on women to be unfolding overseas and why she thinks this issue is not getting the attention it deserves here. moment ago the house oversight committee asked questions about our security at the consulate in libya. ralph peters is ahead with his take. >> a compound owned by us serving like a consulate was breached less than 60 days before the murder of the ambassador in that facility, isn't that true? >> sir, we had the correct number of assets in benghazi at the time of 9/11 for what had been agreed upon. >> my time is expired.

to start off by saying you had the correct number and through ambassador and three other individuals are dead and people are in the hospital recovering because it only took moments to breach that facility. somehow doesn't seem to -- temperature

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why the administration initially seemed to blame that internet video for the violence. but relater learned the intelligence community knew within 24 hours the terrorist.were to blame. you we'll continue to monitor this hearing and we'll bring you any and all important developments. a teenaged girls recovering after being shot in the head by a taliban gunman for speaking out in support of education for girls. doctors think she will pull through, but the taliban has vowed to hunt her down and kill her if she lives. our next guest says this is not

getting enough attention here. i want to tell our viewers about this incredible 14-year-old girl. she lives in pakistan and has been a chapel yes or no education for girls. when she was 11 years old she started a blog with the bbc under a pseudonym. and as a result she now clings to life because a taliban gunman board her school bus and tried to kill her. >> this is a most remarkable little girl. it's horrifying the way she has been treated. and it's unfortunate it takes an incident like this to focus the world's attention on the fact that islamist terrorist groups from al qaeda to the taliban to hamas and hezbollah are engaged in the premeditated murder of

innocent children. they are recruiting them as suicide bombers and using them as human shields and they are murdering them for wearing a westernized haircut. alisyn: this is an incredible symbol of what the taliban plans to do. in fact they are willing to kill this girl to move their point. yet here at home, we are talking about big bird. not to trivialize this. this was not spoken about at the debates and we are not talking about this usually during the news cycle. why aren't our priorities more focused on what the taliban is planning to do? >> nobody wants to be called islamophobic. anyone who is brave enough to speak about radical islam and how terrorist groups are using

children for air activities are being called islamophobic. p. congressman king put somali parents on the stand who testified how their children were being kidnapped by al qaeda. peter king was called an islam phone for advocating the human rights of children be protected. it's a shame that groups like amnesty international and the human rights council has refused to spotlight this issue. alisyn: is there a feeling we had hoped fingers crossed the taliban had somehow come around and we would be able to partner with them in afghanistan. they weren't al qaeda, they are not as brutal and hideous? >> i think you would be fooling

yourself to believe something like that. we have seen the past 10 years. hamas, they all engage in the same strategy of systematic indoctrination of muslim children. they are taught through their television and school textbooks, by their political and religious leaders to hate the west and revere martyrdom and take their own lives for the sake of a violent jihad. if you say that. say you are a member of the fbi and you talk about radical islam or say the words islam orgy had. you get fired. the words islam and jihad are being redacted from the training manuals in the state department. this administration refused to highlight how radical islamists are killing children. alisyn: let's hope this young girl's near death ends up somehow not being in vain and

allowing to us talk about it more. thanks for bringing it to our attention today. a giant restaurant chain is threatening to slash its workers hours. 180,000 people will be busts from full time to part time. is this the future of the american economy? also house lawmakers demanding to know what went wrong on the ground in libya. four americans including our ambassador to that country murder on 9/11. this as finger pointing within the obama administration intense guys over who knew what when. colonel ralph peters. >> approximately 9:40 p.m. local time dozen of attackers launched a full-scale assault. they forced their way through the pedestrian gates. used diesel fuel to set fire to

the libyan brigade barracks and proceeded towards the main building. are you receiving a payout from a legal settlement or annuity over 10 or even 20 years? call imperial structured settlements. the experts at imperial can convert your long-term payout into a lump sum of cash today.

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these kinds of plans could save you up to thousands in out-of-pocket costs... you'll be able choose any doctor who accepts medicare patients. and you never need referrals. so don't wait. with all the good years ahead, look for the experience and commitment to go the distance with you. call now to request your free decision guide. this easy-to-understand guide will answer some of your questions, and help you find the aarp medicare supplement plan that's right for you. >> let's be clear about what the state department is saying. pat kennedy, the undersecretary of state for management, is testifying on the hill today about this very matter. i will quote to you now from his prepared testimony. no one in the administration has claimed to know all the answers. we have always made clear that we are giving the best

information we have at the time. and that information has evolved. for example, if any administration official, including any career official, were on television on sunday, september 16th, they would have said what ambassador rice said. alisyn: well, that was white house spokesman jay carney at the top of this hour answering new questions about why the administration verse of events about what happened on 9/11 has changed so dramatically since those four americans were killed at our consulate in benghazi a month ago. in just the last two weeks, we've learned that the intelligence community learned within 24 hours that terror was to blame, but five days after the attack, on september 16th, u.n. ambassador susan rice went on a series of sunday talk shows and said the following: >> best assessment we have today is that, in fact, this was not a preplanned, premeditated attack, that what happened initially was that it was a spontaneous reaction to what had just

transpired in cairo as a consequence of the video. our current assessment is that what happened in benghazi was, in fact, initially a spontaneous reaction to what had just transpired hours before in cairo, almost a copycat of the demonstrations against our facility in cairo which were prompted, of course, by the video. what our assessment is as of the present is, in fact, what it began respond spontaneously in i as a reaction to what had transpired some hours earlier in cairo. alisyn: joining us now is ralph peters, fox news strategic analyst, also the author of "cain at gettysburg." hi, ralph. >> hi, alisyn. alisyn: one of the bombshells from this is that there were no protests in benghazi, they now admit and we now know. there wasn't demonstrations, it wasn't about the video. there were no protests. do you believe jay carney when he just said moments ago any

administration official, state department official who was sent out five days after would have had the same intelligence and would have said that this was all just a spontaneous protest. >> well, i've got the tell you, listening to jay carney draws me into flashbacks. alisyn, when i was in the military, my specialty was the former soviet union, its military, its government. and listening to jay carney reminds me of a younger, sleeker version of old stalin-era spokespeople. this white house just makes it up. they lie, and when that lie doesn't work, they tell another lie. and when that lie doesn't work, they tell another lie. i've never seen in the course of some pretty bad republican and democratic administrations in my lifetime, i've never seen such a wanton disregard for the truth. and i can tell you that within the intelligence community within less than 24 hours everybody who mattered knew this was a carefully-planned terrorist attack. you didn't even need

intelligence. you looked at what happened. but, alisyn, the white house panicked because the election narrative, re-election narrative for president obama was that with his own bare hands he killed usama bin laden. with his fists, he beat al-qaeda to a pulp. and suddenly on the 11th anniversary of september 11th, what do you get? a carefully-coordinated, brutal attack on our consulate in benghazi for which we were resolutely unprepared, determined to be unprepared, and four americans including an ambassador died. so they went into panic mode. who do we blame? oh, that video. alisyn: let's talk about the bigger issue you just touched on when you say we were decidedly unprepared. we now know from the testimony we've been listening to in the past couple hours that the security guys on the ground were asking for more security. they didn't think they should be sent home. they were going to be sent home in august, and they told the state department, actually, the situation here is getting worse. there are more targeted attacks,

in fact, there's a threat against chris stevens on facebook saying that they're going to get him when he goes out for one of his morning runs. why would the state department -- well, let's listen. let me actually play for you the question in case -- >> sure. >> ms. lamb, yesterday you told us in testimony that you received from mr. nordstrom a recommendation but not a request for more security, and you admitted that, in fact, you had previously said that if he submitted a request, you would not support it. is that correct? >> sir, after our meeting last night, i went back and -- at the time -- >> first, answer the question, then i'll let you expand. kid you say that yesterday? -- did you say that yesterday? that you would not support it if he gave you the request? >> under the current conditions, yes. alisyn: ralph, it sounds like what she went on to say is she somehow thought that the libyan

security teams that were being trained could fill the void if f the american security went home. >> i think ms. lamb is very aptly named, certainly no tiger. but you're seeing what happens when ideology rather than self-interest and rational thinking guides policy. and there -- i can tell you from personal experience with our diplomats, there's a subculture in the state of people who just believe our military is nasty and wicked and evil, and the foreigners are somehow better diplomats, but i've seen that. and i think what happens here, it's not excusable, but you can explain it. under the condi rice state department, the pendulum swung the other way. in iraq the rice state department employed hired gun, cowboys, thugs and mercenaries who literally drove over iraqis, slaughtered innocent iraqis, the

least diplomatic contingent were our diplomats. when secretary clinton took over, she said we're not going to do that anymore. but instead of having a balanced approach, it went to the left-wing i'd logs where get the marines out of there, get the special forces out of there. we don't trust the military, we trust the locals. it's a self-inflicted tragedy. alisyn: why do we still not know what happened with ambassador chris stevens? we now know a lot more about that hideous attack, but we don't know how he got to the hospital. there are a lot of unanswered questions. >> and they will remain unanswered until after the november election. this is a grotesque embarrassment for the president. not only the terrorist attempt, but the cover-up that tried to cover-up the cover-up. so i think the truth will certainly come out, and we'll see a real investigation sometime after the election, but not before november. and i also have to add painful though it may be, to really get

to the bottom of this we've got to look at every aspect of it, including ambassador stevens' personal life. could any relationships have played into his vulnerability, security lapses, his professional contacts. the fbi know how to do that if you turn 'em loose. and by the way, the excuse that it's too dangerous in benghazi for the fbi, the fbi have been in combat zones going back at least to vietnam. they're tough. this administration does not want the american people to know even a glimmer of the truth about what happened. alisyn: ralph peters, always nice to talk to you. thanks so much, we'll hope that these hearings do get some questions answered. thank you. new concerns that tens of thousands of people could find themselves without full-time work. up next, see why an employer of 180,000 people is now changing a growing number of its employees to part time. here's a hint, it's about health care. we have big dreams.

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alisyn: al the house oversight committee asking questions about the attack on our consulate in libya. you can see eric nordstrom, he was one of the security guards there, he is talking to lawmakers about the decisions that were made after the request he made for additional security. let's listen in. >> quite some time. we were concerned about. that specific group had been involved in a similar but, obviously, much smaller-scale incident at the end of june involving the tunisian consulate in benghazi where they stormed that facility. and it was in protest to what they claimed was an anti-islamic film in tunis. >> so thank you very much. i just want to make it clear for the record that on september 16th ambassador rice went on tv, and i'm assuming it was at the direction of this administration, he was not there on her own.

i'm sure he has better things to do on a sunday morning. and she went to specifically tell the american people that all of the intelligence information led to only one conclusion, when it is clear that intelligence experts, security experts and even ambassador kennedy looking at the information that was happening on tv could have concluded something different? i think a's outrageous, and it is -- that's outrageous and shameful. >> thank the gentleman. we now go to the gentleman from illinois, mr. davis, for five minutes. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman, and can i want to thank all of the witnesses for participating. by appearing here with us today. i also want to commend all of the brave men and women who risk tear lives on a dale -- their lives on a daily basis by serve anything these high-risk areas. i also extend my condolences to the families of those who lost their lives or were injured

during this tragic attack. following the death of long-time ruler moammar gadhafi, libya and its citizens entered a critical transition period. ambassador stevens once described this period as, and i quote: a time of great excitement as the libyan people first experienced freedom, but also a time of significant trepidation for what might come next. ambassador stevens i think, obviously, was correct. ambassador kennedy, benghazi was the cradle of the revolution, but could you explain to us the importance of the diplomatic mission in libya and the special post in benghazi?

>> thank you much, sir. absolutely. benghazi was the cradle of the revolution. there is, essentially, two major parts of libya, east and west. in order to help the libyans move forward, to help the libyans take advantage of their newfound freedom and to build the democratic strategy, we all wish for any nation to have, we could not hupger down, we could not say out. as i mentioned earlier, the state department has to go into harm's way. if we're going to advance u.s. national security interests, we cannot retreat. we have to go, to use a colloquialism, we have to go where the action is. we will take every step we can to mitigate the risks to our personnel abroad, but we cannot end those risks. we cannot stay out of the action. we have to go there. and because as you correctly posit, sir, because of the importance of benghazi in the development of the new libya, we

had to have a forward operating location there, and we had to have visits there by ambassador stevens. >> thank you very much. mr. nordstrom, on the ore side of this -- other side of this, can you describe some of the challenges faced by security officers in analyzing security risk while allowing the diplomatic mission to interact with the local leaders and individuals in the population -- alisyn: you've been listening to the house oversight committee, questions from representatives of the state department as to what went so terribly wrong at the consulate. we will continue watching and listening and bring you major developments that. they're also stream thing live online at foxnews.com. we want to get now to another big story that we're tracking today, and that's the world's largest casual dining company is testing out some controversial changes to its staffing as it looks for ways to avoid the added costs of the new

health care law. darden restaurants owns red lobster, olive garden and longhorn steakhouse. it has close to 200,000 employees. the company's now planning to drop a number of its full-time employees to part-time status to avoid some of the costs associated with obamacare. lou dobbs is the host of "lou dobbs tonight" and is a syndicated radio host. hello, lou. >> how are you? alisyn: i'm doing wear. well. is this a good idea? >> well, what it is is a test to see what the impact will be because of the, what is perceived to be by business in this country the crushing burden of obamacare. it is one of those consequences that was, obviously, easily foreseen by our congress had they taken time to actually evaluate what they were doing. is it a good idea? it's never a good idea when

people need full-time jobs for some people -- and they are at the margin -- part-time jobs work. but we have seen an explosion of five million part-time jobs since this recession began. alisyn: and you say congress would have known this was one of the possible by-products because, frankly, it was telegraphed in the law in that it says large companies must provide insurance to employees working an average of at least 30 hours per week. that's a pretty clear loophole. >> well, it's a loophole, it is also really bad public policy because the president said he was going to insure everybody. and then, by the way, he -- darden restaurants is one of the companies which he gave, this administration gave a waiver to obamacare because they went along with the first lady's, what is it, anti-obesity program and all that healthy living. i mane, this thing is screwed up -- i mean, this thing is screwed up from a to z in public

policy terms. alisyn: darden say there are still many unanswered questions, and we simply do not have enough information to make any decisions at this time. so why not wait until 2014? >> because they're a business, and they need to know what the impact will be. they're not like congress and this president. they want to see what the consequence will be of the business decisions and the change in business practices that they will undertake to avoid the burden of obamacare. alisyn: is there a danger for darden that then people won't want to work for them or a danger that people won't want to eat at their restaurants if -- >> i mean, it's almost -- i understand where you're coming from. in this economy, alisyn, we're talking about people who want to eat, and i'm talking about the people working part time. they're not working part time because they want to spend the rest of the day on their yacht down at the marina. they need the work. what we have to do are have public policies that are aimed at driving job creation.

this law is not in any way taking account of the aspirations of those who are in the middle class or who aspire to the middle class. alisyn: one of the things that president obama talked about in justifying obamacare and why he wanted to move forward with it were the spiraling health care costs that everyone was facing. every year health care went up. is it possible that big companies like darden or others would have had to have made some of these adjustments anyway to tackle health care costs? >> i think that what is more likely, and we need to keep in context here s that about 70%, about three-forties of the jobs at darden are made up of part-time workers. we need to start understanding what we're doing in the workplace, the jobs that are being created. because all of the fuss over the 7.8% unemployment number last friday and jack welch having a fit and conspiracy theorists everywhere, part of it is what is happening in this economy. employers are hiring part time. we are looking at explosions in

part-time hiring, so people can avoid, employers can avoid benefits where it is, ultimately, by 2014 obama obamacare or whether it is now in providing any kind of insurance, any kind of benefit, even 401(k)s. alisyn: is in the new normal? even if obamacare never happens, is this now how employers are going to treat employees? >> i think it depends on the choices made, frankly, on november 6th. it is the new normal under the policies we've followed for four years. if this is the new normal you want, that choice is pretty clear. if it isn't, it's time to think about new directions. l. alisyn: lou dobbs, great to see you. thanks so much. a major warning for american motorists, the danger that could be lurking inside your car. we're live with that story next. when you have diabetes...

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>>megyn: we are 24 hours away from the one and only vice presidential